In many cases I find the tooltip for a variable in the editor window pane to be best and quickest way to visualizing complex structured data (if it doesn't have too much data.) However, it would be nice if I could also get those tool tips for the variables listed in the local and global window panes too.

Even if I had to first click on an icon to see the tooltip (so as not to have the tooltips becoming distracting) it could be okay but sometimes tracking the variable down in the editor windows, especially for globals takes a lot of time and makes it easier to just use the drill down even though it is not always as effective.

Why not to use Globals and Locals windows for such lookups? If you keep both closed and need a quick access to them, just assign shortcuts for them in Tools->Settings->IDE shortcuts.
Finally, if there are a few variables in the current scope, Globals/Locals are equally fast as tooltips. With increasing number of variables, tootip quickly becomes useless because of its size, while Globals/Locals still work good. If you need to check a particular variable, tooltip and Immediate window are the best places.

My point was that Globals and Locals are formatted differently than Tooltips. Sometimes Globals/Locals formatting is more useful, other times Tooltips formatting is more useful.



As fast, how? Consider the following hypothetical array:


Now, in order to see $layout['sections'][0]['rows'][1]['columns'][1]['width'] in the Locals window it requires 7 clicks. Did you get that?!? 7 clicks!!!! Now multiply that by about 100 or 500 times. Sheesh.

With a tooltip I can see it *immediately* and I don't even have to click, just hover. Now imagine that I have a very complex project that uses this data structure and I have to look into it constantly, but each time I have to look at a different part so I can't just use the watch window. With tooltips I might spend LITERALLY HALF as much time as if I have to use Locals window or if I have to type into the immediate window.



I use a spoon for soup and a fork for salad because each works better in different circumstances. If I only had one, I'd be handicapped and find it difficult to eat soup or salad, depending on which one I had.

I have an oil filter wrench and a spark plug socket. I rarely use them, but when I need there is just no substitute.

I have a nice Nikon Digital SLR but I also have a Kodak point-and-shoot. The Nikon is usally the best, but when I need my hands free the Kodak is great because the Nikon is just not an option.

Similarly, Tooltips are useful for a quick glance for moderately complex data structures. Global and Local are useful for either simple variables or extremely complex variables.

Advocating the use of a single tool for every job is either naive or just foolish.



Question: Do you actually use PhpEd to develop any real projects, or do you just use it to test small things in a support role? It seems that you frequently can't appreciate my concerns that are based on my complex development requirements. Maybe that's why you always have such a hard time understanding the value of my feature requests? I've got 20 years of development experience so I push PhpEd far harder than most PHP developers.

You can expand all sublevels of an array in Locals or Globals with just one "*" key press.
All your other related arguments do not work after that.


Thank you Mike, we did not know. I'd prefer to see arguments short and related.


We did know it either.
Would you please provide references to real _SOFTWARE_ when you want to compare our products with something else?


Not a related question, but yes our web guys do use PhpED for their web development.


Not at all and I'm sorry if you came to this conclusion. All the feature requests I see on this forum are equally important for me. I read them all. Although it does not mean that we have an ability to implement them all right now. Mike, welcome to the perfect world of priorities.


I think some additional level of politeness would not harm if you add it to your posts, Mike.

I was unaware of "*" (or I forgot.)

Still, my *preference* in some cases would be a tool tip because 1.) it always displays within the current window if it is small enough to fully display, 2.) it has a much more compressed format so it doesn't require me to scroll the Locals window, and 3.) it would only require a mouse cursor to hover (or a single click) instead of click-to-select, Shift-* to expand, and probably right-click-scroll to move the Locals Window viewport. I can do the single mouse cursor hover/click quickly with one finger whereas the other requires my other hand to move around the keyboard and to coordinate the scrolling action. There is actually significantly more effort required for the latter than for the former.

Some of these things may seem like small things to you but since I use the debugger for hours and hours a day I'd prefer to see it's UI optimized for speed and usability, and when I see things that are distracting and/or time consuming I want to mention them.



I was using an analogy and a metaphor, not making a comparison.



My question was not do your web guys use it but "Do you use it?" because you are the one who is responding to my feature requests (I'm assuming you don't wait to discuss each of my feature requests with your web team before you reply.) And I'm not trying to be sarcastic or condescending; you could be the world's best Visual Studio C++ developer but still not have related experience in PHP in which case you would not be qualified to know a PHP developers needs as well as a heavy PHP developer.

Thus far I have felt like you've dismissed almost every one of my requests as unnecessary, unimportant, or that they don't make sense. But I'm the one actually using PhpEd and I am the one seeing what I need. Maybe I don't understand something about PhpEd that would address my needs, and your help in learning about those feature is helpful and appreciated, but for the most part you haven't replied in that manner.

Instead of asking "Will feature 'X' address your problem?" you have been saying "Your request is unnecessary because feature 'X' addresses your problem." It will be perfectly okay with me if you acknowledge my request and then your team chooses not to implement it, but telling me that I don't need something is assuming that you definitely know better about my situation and my needs than I do which could be viewed as condescending, and it frustrates me greatly.

I have several more feature request I'd like to make, but I don't want to waste my time only be have my input dismissed and not even considered.



I completely appreciate your need for priorities. My issue is not how you choose to prioritize my requests, it is whether or not you give me the level of respect to not dismiss my suggestions as unimportant. In this particular case, the tooltip, I only ask that you acknowledge that having a tooltip when hovering over the variables in the Local's and Global's windows would be useful TO ME; nothing more. Development priorities are a seperate issue completely from simply acknowledging that my feature request has value to me.



You are correct, and I apologize for my lack of politeness. It doesn't justify it but I was extremely frustrated.

Please, here's what I'm asking (give me this and I will be forever polite): Instead of judging my requests, simply strive to understand them by asking "Will feature 'x" solve your problem?" If I say "no, I'd still like to have the feature I suggested" (as I said above) then politely accept that I would still like to have it and please don't tell me I don't need it or that it doesn't make sense. Give me the respect that maybe I see a need you don't see.

Then whether or not your team chooses to implement my feature suggestions will be a completely seperate issue from simply understanding them and acknowledging that I would like to have them. Is that not reasonable for me to ask?

Thanks in advance for contemplating my concerns.

Dear Mike,
Sorry for misunderstanding, it's on both sides. We definitely value your input and Dmitri didn't dismiss your feature request, we'll consider it as well as thousands of other requests from our users and we'll put priorities. At the same time please don't take Dmitri's reply as dismissal - due to the fact that our IDE is pretty complex with a lot of features we're always trying to point out to our customers that you can achieve certain goals using different tools/features which are already present in our product. And in many cases we're getting the response: "Thank you, I didn't know that, works perfect for me". So that's the real reason for the suggestions to use other options.
I hope that you'll still be our valued and happy (which is very important to us) customer.
Best regards,
Sergey - Nusphere customer care

Thanks for your response; it means a lot. Yes I'm still happy; I really like the product and am in a position to be a real evangelist for you given all the local user group work I do.

I have other suggestions I will be making online, mostly around the debugger, and many of them are what I would consider ways to improve the debugging user interface/experience. All I ask if you guys to just listen to my suggestions; I don't expect you to implement them, just listen and consider to implement them. And if there is something I do not know about PhpEd I'll be very happy to learn it is already there, just please don't assume that my concerns are addressed with existing features unless I come back and say "Yes, that thing which I did not know about *does* meet my needs!"

BTW, have you seen the poll on what people use PhpEd for? what-do-you-use-phped-to-debug-t4648.html 9 people answering is not statistically significant yet, but what it tells me is that you've got a lot of potential to market PhpEd directly to people who customize Drupal, WordPress, MediaWiki, etc.; that market is wide open. I spent 12 years marketing developer software at a company that I grew 1700% over five years, so I know a little something about developer tools marketing. If you are interested in some of my thoughts on that, email me.

Mike,
Thank you for your reply and your offer.
Please send your suggestions to support[at]nusphere.com, we'll gladly consider them.
If you have marketing ideas please send us an email to sales[at]nusphere.com, we'll be happy to review them as well.
Regards,
Sergey - Nusphere customer care